Relatable with Thrive Therapy

EP 43: Defensiveness

On this episode of Relatable Colter, Lauren, and Cayla discuss the concept of defensiveness in communication, particularly within relationships. Defensiveness occurs when individuals feel attacked or shamed, leading them to respond by justifying their actions or shifting blame. This behavior often results in a disconnect between partners and can invalidate the other person's feelings. The podcast emphasizes the importance of empathetic listening and understanding before responding, as immediate defensiveness can hinder connection and communication.
 
Key Discussion Points:
Defensiveness vs gaslighting: Sometimes defensiveness gets mislabeled as gaslighting. While the feelings of the recipient may feel the same, the intention is quite different. Gaslighting is using a strategy intentionally to get a reaction or to try and see something a certain way because someone is manipulating you. Defensiveness comes from trying to communicate what it is like to be you so someone can see your perspective to avoid shame or disappointment. Not trying to intentionally manipulate, just had a different experience.
 
Impacts of Defensiveness: When defensiveness is defined as a disconnecting strategy, the opposing question is: “so should I never defend myself?” The answer is no. As mentioned above, so defensiveness comes from wanting to provide some clarification. There are some seldom benefits to defensiveness; however, the negative impacts far outweigh them. Defensiveness creates invalidation, making partners feel unheard and unsafe to express their feelings which can hinder constructive communication and emotional connection. Can you recognize when you are speaking out of defensiveness to protect versus defensiveness to provide clarity? How do you see that affect the conversation with your partner moving forward?
 
Self-Awareness/Raw Spots: When someone feels like their behavior is criticized, they move to “well I would(n’t) have done this if you had(n’t) done that” to justify our behaviors. If we are able to recognize personal triggers that lead you to defensiveness, you can become more aware and keep yourself accountable. Likewise, sharing these triggers with your partner can promote understanding and reduce defensive reactions. When defensiveness comes up (or before it does), ask some questions: “Is there anything that I know I did that I can own?” “I am having a hard time understanding your perspective, can you help me fill in some of the gaps?”
 
Overall, defensiveness, even when worked on, will show up in relationships. This episode offers valuable insights into improving communication, enhancing emotional connection, and navigating defensiveness in relationships. When we are trying to correct protective responses that land on our partner as disconnecting or invalidating, we don’t always have to catch it in the moment—we don’t have to be perfect. Repair is equally as good as preventing. Listeners are encouraged to share their "raw spots" with partners to foster understanding and reduce defensiveness when it occurs.

EP 42: Righteousness

This podcast episode explores the dynamics of protective moves in relationships, emphasizing how they stem from feelings of vulnerability and fear. When individuals feel threatened, their nervous systems may shift into a defensive state, resulting in behaviors that can be harmful or misconstrued by their partners. Key protective strategies discussed include self-righteousness and contempt, both of which can create emotional distance and shame.
Protective Moves: When faced with vulnerability, the nervous system may shift from social engagement to fight/flight/freeze, leading to automatic defensive behaviors that can be perceived as hurtful when in reality it is a protective strategy from someone fighting for the connection. Can you recognize and identify when you start to shift to fight/flight/free when presented with vulnerability? What are some of those triggers?
Understanding in Relationships: The use of protective strategies can evoke feelings of shame in the recipient, which can lead to withdrawal and further disconnection. With that, it’s important to acknowledge that both partners may feel overwhelmed. Practicing empathy and understanding each other's perspectives can foster connection. How can you express empathy when your partner is acting defensively? What strategies can you use to remind yourself of your partner’s strengths during conflicts?
Boundary Management: Effective boundaries should be established as means of self-care rather than punishment, focusing on what is tolerable in the relationship. So instead of saying “I won’t tolerate this, I am going to leave the relationship”, start by listing out what is tolerable to you. That way you are able to set clear boundaries ahead of time versus during a time you are outside of your window. Can you communicate your boundaries without creating defensiveness that can maintain a healthy relationship?
Overall, listeners are encouraged to cultivate awareness of their emotional and physical responses during conflicts and to recognize when they or their partners are outside their “window of tolerance.” By fostering empathy and understanding each other’s experiences, couples can work towards re-establishing connection. This episode brings more understanding of righteousness and where these protective moves come from and how they present themselves in a relationship. Through communication and reflection, couples can navigate these challenges and enhance their relational dynamics.

EP 41: Trust

Is trust a gut feeling that you have, or actions that someone does, or something that you just give everyone when you meet them? The word trust is used a lot, but it is not well defined. On this week’s episode of Relatable, we explore how we approach trust in relationships, particularly whether we start by trusting people until they prove untrustworthy, or if we wait for them to earn our trust. It emphasizes that trust isn't one-size-fits-all, as it depends on what we're trusting someone with.
 
Key Discussion Points:
What trust looks like to one person, may not be the same as others. Some people will give trust to others right away and start retracting as they start to see they are untrustworthy and others are the opposite–not giving trust until they see they are capable of it. How do we decide what aspects of someone (e.g., their intentions or their actions) we trust early on?
 
Defining Trust: For those who haven't experienced secure relationships, there can be a tendency to either shut people out (rigid protection) or trust everyone (boundarylessness). Without the ability to discern between green, yellow, and red flags in relationships, it becomes difficult not only to trust others but also to trust oneself. Brene Brown’s idea of "BRAVING," seven key indicators of trust: Boundaries, Reliability, Accountability, Vault (confidentiality), Integrity, Non-judgment, and Generosity helps us break down what defines trust in relationships. Which of the 7 areas causes you to lack trust with other individuals?
 
In this episode, Cayla tells those that are building and discerning trust to visualize these 7 categories as buckets that overtime we are filling which will aid us in knowing if we can trust someone. The metaphor of trust as "buckets" suggests that trust builds gradually, and when one of the buckets is low, it's an opportunity for communication, not an automatic end to the relationship. It encourages us to reflect on whether that person is trustworthy and where both parties might be able to improve when fostering trust. In your own life, when you see that others are dropping the buckets, are you quick to end the relationships or are you one to address these concerns with the other party?
 
The message of this episode is that trust (how it's formed, maintained, and sometimes broken) can be determined by many different factors. At the core is the idea that trust is not an all-or-nothing concept but a nuanced, gradual process that involves discernment, boundaries, and a set of clear indicators. Ultimately, trust is presented as both a personal and relational practice that requires ongoing effort. By being mindful of the BRAVING framework, we can better navigate trust in all areas of life—ensuring that we not only trust others but also show up as trustworthy ourselves.

EP 40: Personality in Relationships

On this week’s episode of Relatable, navigating personality differences in relationships. Colter, Cayla and Lauren  We'll explore the concept of individuation—how our unique interests, temperaments, and ways of thinking shape our personalities and affect our interactions with our partners. We'll also discuss the tension between protection and personality, and how to recognize when we're defending ourselves versus embracing our differences.
 
Key Discussion Points:
What excites or intrigues us, may not be the same for our partner. In Colter’s vignette he talks about how Josh wanted to surprise Kara with a date night, but when he picked a fancier place that was buzzing with people drinking wine and ate Hors d'oeuvres, what he thought was going to be fun, was not received the same way by his partner. Can you recognize how differences with your partner can lead to disconnect or misinterpretations.Connection: When it comes to a romantic or platonic relationship, understanding one another’s personality is huge when creating a connection. Whether it’s Big 5 personalities such as openness to experience, extroversion, etc. or qualities of a specific Enneagram #, we all bring different traits to a relationship. Can you recall a time where you wanted to connect with someone but there was something about our personalities that made it difficult? (i.e. I thought it was something that we would both enjoy, but only I did).Differences in Relationships: Both Cayla and Lauren talked about how their current and previous partners had some pretty big differences in their relationships. Dance is a big part of Cayla’s life and her fiancé doesn’t enjoy it at all. When there are differences in a relationship, it can cause some grief (I wish they liked ____, I want them to enjoy doing _____, my partner doesn’t want to engage in this area of my life, etc.) Are there any areas/interests that you really need a partner to connect to?
The overall message of this episode is to understand and recognize that personality plays a big part in relationships. For example, if one person likes spontaneity and the other like organized, planned events are you more likely to accept these differences, or try to change your partner to feel similarly to you? Colter, Cayla and Lauren talk about how open and honest communication can help couples navigate differences effectively. By recognizing, respecting and embracing them, you can try and avoid reoccurring conflicts or differences that stem from these personality differences.

EP 39: 9 Types

On this week’s episode of Relatable, we are further exploring the topic of Personality–specifically, the Enneagram and the 9 types. Colter, Cayla and Lauren dive into the fascinating world of the Enneagram, a powerful tool for understanding personality types, promoting personal growth, and seeing how others navigate the world. Whether you're new to the Enneagram or a seasoned enthusiast, this episode offers insights into the nine types and their core motivations/fears. Join us as we explore the Enneagram.
 
Key Discussion Points:
Enneagram: Understanding your Enneagram type can provide deep insights into your core motivations, fears, and behavioral patterns. This self-awareness helps you recognize why you act the way you do and how you can grow and develop in healthier ways. After hearing the fears and motivations of each type, can you identify your type?
 
Triads: The Enneagram divides its nine types into three triads, each associated with a different aspect of human experience: the Heart (Feeling), Head (Thinking), and Gut (Instinctive) centers. Each triad is linked to a core emotional response—shame, fear, or anger—that significantly influences the behavior of the types within that triad. How do you see the core emotions (shame, fear, anger) manifesting in your life, even if they are not part of your primary triad? How do these emotions influence your overall personality and behavior?
 
Enneagram on a Spectrum: The Enneagram describes each type's behavior across a spectrum of health, from healthy to average to unhealthy. This spectrum reflects how an individual of a particular type functions at different levels of self-awareness, emotional stability, and personal growth. Can we identify the characteristics of your type when you are in heath, average, and/or unhealthy?
 
The message of this episode is to get a better understanding of the enneagram and what the basic desires and fears are for each type! As you go on this journey of researching and really identifying your type, you and others can start to understand how we navigate this world. What is our motivation? What drives us to do certain things? What characteristics do we possess?

EP 38: Personality

On this week’s episode of Relatable, we are diving into the topic of Personality. Specifically, what Major Traits/enduring characteristics that make up people’s personalities. Colter, Cayla and Lauren discuss the behaviors we were born with versus the ones learned, and how the spectrum of the OCEAN Big 5 can cause people’s personalities to be so different.
 
Key Discussion Points:
Personality: We learn that personality can differ from one person to another, but by recognizing how we are different, will this allow us to make better decisions versus reacting, or even create more confidence in yourself and the ability to go toe-to-toe when a conflict arises?
 
Nature vs Nurture: Certain personality traits, such as temperament, can be inherited, while others such as openness to experience can be influenced by the environment a person was raised in. Can we recognize in ourselves what traits we have learned from our surroundings versus the ones we were born with?
 
Big 5 Traits: They are openness to experience, conscientiousness, extroversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism. We learn that each of these traits are non-binary, so everyone has a different relatability/experience with these traits. How can learning someone’s Big 5 change the way you communicate and interact with them?
 
The message of this episode is to understand that there are 5 Big Traits that play a part in how people’s personalities are created and developed. The traits or feelings we gravitate towards could be the effects of our childhood experiences, or things we learned while growing up, while others may be a characteristic we passed down from birth. The more we are able to identify how our personalities align/differ from others, the quicker we are able to understand and interact better with those around us.

EP 37: Apologies

In this insightful episode, Colter, Lauren, and Cayla delve into the complex world of apologies. They explore the apology continuum, highlighting the tendency some people have to over-apologize while others may under-apologize. The hosts discuss common apology pitfalls, such as when "I'm sorry" misses the mark, including over-apologizing, passive-aggressive apologies, and making the apology about oneself rather than the hurt party.
Key Topics Covered:
The Apology Continuum:
Understanding the spectrum from under-apologizing to over-apologizing.
How finding balance is key to effective apologies.
Common Apology Misses:
Over-apologizing: The difference between saying "I'm sorry" and expressing gratitude.
"I'm sorry you feel that way": Why this apology often falls short.
Defensive and passive-aggressive apologies.
Avoiding the trap of making the apology about ourselves.
When to Apologize:
Identifying different levels of rupture or injury.
How to gauge when an apology is necessary.
Recognizing your own values and how they guide sincere apologies.
Steps for an Effective Apology:
Small Ruptures:
Acknowledgement of actions.
Validation of the other person’s feelings.
Brief reflection on the emotions that motivated your actions.
Recognizing the impact and taking accountability.
The importance of a sincere apology.
Medium Ruptures:
All of the above, plus developing an action plan to prevent future issues.
Large Betrayals:
Understanding the difference between disclosure and discovery.
Timing and its importance in the apology process.
Allowing space for the injured party to express their feelings.
Practicing reflective listening and validation.
Expressing genuine regret and remorse.
Offering explanations only when appropriate and holding space for continued healing.
Takeaways: Apologies are a vital part of maintaining healthy relationships, but not all apologies are created equal. The hosts offer a thoughtful guide to navigating apologies at different levels, ensuring that they are both genuine and effective in repairing relationships.

EP 36: Empathy and Validation

In this episode, we dive deep into the concepts of empathy and validation—two critical elements for building strong, meaningful relationships. We explore their differences, why they are essential, and provide practical steps on how to effectively use them in everyday interactions.
Key Discussion Points:
What is the Difference Between Empathy and Validation?
Empathy:
Seeing things from another's perspective.
Emotional understanding and connection.
Summarizing or reflecting their experience.
Validation:
Acknowledging that their feelings make sense.
Reinforcing that their emotions and experiences matter.
Why Do We Need Empathy and Validation?
These are foundational for creating safety, attunement, trust, and relational intimacy.
Demonstrating safety is crucial if we want to truly hear and connect with someone.
Empathy “Misses”
Discussion inspired by Brené Brown’s Atlas of the Heart (specific examples to be shared during the episode).
Cognitive Empathy vs. Embodied Empathy
Exploring the differences between understanding emotions cognitively versus feeling them on a deeper, more visceral level.
Common Reasons People Struggle with Empathy and Validation:
Disconnection from our own emotional experiences.
Habituated coping mechanisms that keep us emotionally distant.
Conditioned responses from our caregivers that we unknowingly repeat.
Lack of individuation and the tendency to filter experiences only through our perspective.
The pressure to fix, solve, or take away someone else's pain.
Steps for Practicing Empathy:
Focus on the emotional language being used.
Embody the feelings to truly understand them.
Relate by recalling similar experiences in your life.
Steps for Practicing Validation:
Use phrases like:
“I understand why you feel this way.”
“I didn’t realize how this affected you…”
“I respect you for sharing this.”
“It makes sense that you’re feeling this way.”
References:
Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown (pages and specific empathy “misses” discussed in this episode).

EP 35 - The Voice of Anxiety

On this week’s episode of Relatable, we are digging into the topic of Anxiety. Specifically, the Face of Anxiety. Colter, Cayla and Lauren explore how anxiety shows up in people’s lives and the different ways they can manifest, with some insight on how to quash those feelings down.
Key Discussion Points:
 
The Face of Anxiety: We explore the importance of understanding the voice of anxiety, especially when it feels overwhelming. Anxiety often exaggerates worst-case scenarios, making threats seem inevitable while underestimating our ability to cope. How can we recognize these patterns, and challenge and reframe our thoughts, to approach situations with a clearer perspective?Uncertainty and Avoidance of Anxiety: If you knew how much distress something would cause you, would you still engage in it, or not? Have you ever tried challenging those patterns? We give you some examples on how to externalize the voice of anxiety that is nagging you by using humor and diffusion techniques. Is Your Anxiety Right?: Anxiety is a survival mechanism that alerts us to potential dangers, sometimes accurately. However, it often exaggerates or misinterprets situations. The key is recognizing when it's helpful and when it's distorting reality. What specific situations have you experienced where your anxiety was right, and how did recognizing this help you navigate those moments effectively?The overall message of this episode is to understand and recognize the voice of anxiety. By externalizing anxiety and employing humor when possible, we can distance ourselves from it and make decisions aligned with our core values. Emphasizing the importance of tolerating uncertainty and building resilience is essential for managing anxiety-provoking situations.

EP 34: Narcissism

On today’s episode of Relatable, we tackle the question: What is a Narcissist? Am I a Narcissist? If I have to ask this question, does that mean I am not a Narcissist? Colter, Cayla, and Lauren discuss the various categories and criteria that might indicate someone is a narcissist, where it comes from, and the strategies they may use to deceive you. 
Key Discussion Points:
The 9 Traits of Narcissism: Narcissism is often defined by a set of traits reflecting an excessive focus on oneself and a lack of empathy for others. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) outlines several key traits associated with narcissistic personality disorder. The theory suggests that exhibiting 5 or more of these behaviors might indicate narcissistic tendencies.
Where Narcissism Comes From: We explore how narcissism can stem from a lack of empathy and validation during childhood. Such neglect can lead to deep-seated shame and insecurity, prompting individuals to develop narcissistic traits as a defense mechanism. Understanding these early experiences helps us grasp how childhood neglect influences adult narcissistic behavior.
Strategies of a Narcissist: Narcissists use various tactics, including manipulation to control others, mirroring to create a false sense of trust, stonewalling and gaslighting to cast doubt, and love bombing to overwhelm their targets. We discuss how to recognize these traits, particularly in new relationships where everything might seem perfect.
This episode aims to help you navigate your personal boundaries and manage your reactions when encountering narcissistic traits in a partner or friend.Further Resources:Dr. Ramini’s Podcast: "Navigating Narcissism" offers expert insights into dealing with narcissistic behavior.
Mel Robbins Podcast Episode: Featuring Dr. Roy, titled "When You're Dealing With a Narcissist and How to Protect Yourself," provides a high-level overview of coping strategies.
Christine Hammond’s Podcast: "Understanding Today's Narcissist" covers various aspects of narcissism and is well-regarded in the field.
Books:
The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists: Uses the story of the Wizard of Oz to illustrate narcissistic behaviors and tactics in an engaging way.
Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay: A guide to deciding whether to stay in or leave a relationship, focusing on personal values and tolerance.
Rethinking Narcissism: The Secret to Recognizing and Coping with Narcissists by Dr. Craig Malkin: Offers strategies for recognizing and managing narcissistic behavior.
Disarming the Narcissist: Surviving and Thriving with the Self-Absorbed by Wendy Beharry: Provides practical advice for dealing with narcissistic individuals.
CODA Meetings: Codependency Anonymous (CODA) meetings are recommended for those dealing with codependency and narcissistic traits, offering support and community in a free, accessible format.